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Old 09-27-2009, 01:06 AM   #61
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What some people don't see here is the horrible precedent this sets. Suddenly, it's ok to charge people so you can develop a game. Maybe Eskil is not that kind of a person, but what stops anyone from starting a game, creating lots of hype around it, charge a couple of months of alpha and run off with the money?

What if for some reason (although I sincerely hope not) Eskil finds trouble in his personal life and has to put Love in the drawer for a unknown amount of time? Imagine you pay a year of alpha/beta and then progress gets halted. You just payed 60 to play an unfinished game. If that happened with a game from a big company, all hell would break loose.

Just because he's doing this by himself doesn't make my money, or anyone's money worth less.
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Old 09-27-2009, 01:15 AM   #62
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Yes, it's an alpha, but still someone's work. It's not like reporting bugs we're doing anything to help the game process become more finished. If other game developers find that making a game in alpha free is good, good for them.

But if you think you deserve something for free when someone is working on it, no matter what stage of production it is in, you are a parasite.

I'll be participating in the alpha gladly.
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Old 09-27-2009, 02:14 AM   #63
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wow, I see a lot of hate in this thread..
Which is disapointing from a human & moral point of view, but even more when we are discussing a game called *Love*..

Points seem to have been made on both sides, some of them are very valid, but insulting people and cursing every three words is not going to help.

As for my opinion:
1) Nobody forces anyone to pay. If some people don't want to pay for an alpha/beta version then they can wait for the complete game.
2) Running a server cost money to Eskil. And I don't think he is a multimillionnaire. Somehow these days people assume that everything should be free on the internet.. The hard reality is that developping games cost money.
3) 3 dollars (or even 5) is a *ridiculously low* price for one month of access to a game; even an alpha version. If some people are out of money and can't spend 3$ for a game, then maybe they shouldn't spend 20$ each month for their internet access either..
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Old 09-27-2009, 02:21 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloys View Post
wow, I see a lot of hate in this thread..
Which is disapointing from a human & moral point of view, but even more when we are discussing a game called *Love*..

Points seem to have been made on both sides, some of them are very valid, but insulting people and cursing every three words is not going to help.

As for my opinion:
1) Nobody forces anyone to pay. If some people don't want to pay for an alpha/beta version then they can wait for the complete game.
2) Running a server cost money to Eskil. And I don't think he is a multimillionnaire. Somehow these days people assume that everything should be free on the internet.. The hard reality is that developping games cost money.
3) 3 dollars (or even 5) is a *ridiculously low* price for one month of access to a game; even an alpha version. If some people are out of money and can't spend 3$ for a game, then maybe they shouldn't spend 20$ each month for their internet access either..
Nonetheless, LOVE is doomed to criticism from many online gaming fans for either not having enough content or for costing too much for what many will perceive it as.

I really think there should be a trial period, even if only 7 days for the full release. Alpha, we should think of as a privilege to play this early in development by paying for it. Just having a trial makes it that much more credible.

Anyways, I will be playing Alpha. Hope to see some of you in there.
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Old 09-27-2009, 02:30 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Hodja View Post
Yes, it's an alpha, but still someone's work. It's not like reporting bugs we're doing anything to help the game process become more finished.
This is possibly the dumbest sentence in this entire thread.

THAT'S THE POINT OF AN ALPHA. TO USE THE FEEDBACK AND BUG REPORTS TO IMPROVE THE GAME.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:00 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikatore View Post
This is possibly the dumbest sentence in this entire thread.

THAT'S THE POINT OF AN ALPHA. TO USE THE FEEDBACK AND BUG REPORTS TO IMPROVE THE GAME.
QFT. That was a pretty dumb statement. >.>
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:04 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikatore View Post
This is possibly the dumbest sentence in this entire thread.

THAT'S THE POINT OF AN ALPHA. TO USE THE FEEDBACK AND BUG REPORTS TO IMPROVE THE GAME.
...Of course you're right. Reporting bugs and feedback make the game a smoother experience. But that experience hardly stops when the game enters Beta, or becomes a "finished product", and Eskil continues to make additions to the game.

What would have been a better thing to say is this: Our bug reports and feedback will never end so long as Love continues to evolve, which I believe was the point of the game. In that manner, reporting bugs and giving feedback is hardly worth getting a free game, even when the risk of those bugs is much greater and the potential feedback may really be more necessary.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:48 AM   #68
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Well, it seems to me that we are looking at two seperate issues here; first of all, the 3 euro admission fee for alpha testing. This seems (to me) to be a perfectly reasonable way to raise funds for ongoing development of what is a massive undertaking for one person. He can't charge "nothing" for a game that actually costs thousands/month just to put out there. It's a pretty trivial amount of money anyway, and nicely filters out indesirables (log in, ctd, uninstall, complain on forums, leave). I'm happy to pay it. Someone mentioned earlier that paying for something in alpha is an investment that should generate a return. well, the return is: A finished game.

The monthly fee for out of alpha seems a bit steep but once again it's probably the easiest way to seperate contributing members of an online community from trolls, the underage and BRBRBRBRBR etc.
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:50 AM   #69
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the underage
Misused, my dear sir. I'm 16, as far as I can tell, not a troll and perfectly able to pay for the game. >.>
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Old 09-27-2009, 03:53 AM   #70
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Misused, my dear sir. I'm 16, as far as I can tell, not a troll and perfectly able to pay for the game. >.>
More power to you sir, I simply made a reference to players in your age demographic being of higher likelyhood to be the kind of people you don't want to play with, curiously coupled with lack of access to credit facilities.
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Old 09-27-2009, 04:16 PM   #71
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Ok guys, there's been some name calling and general arsy behaviour going on in this thread which I want to stop, otherwise I'll deal with it with temp bans and the like.

I'm aware that I haven't established any firm rules here at the moment, but it's not asking too much to act like adults and not try and insult other users over an issue frankly none of us are fully aware about.

I don't think Eskil is asking too much by charging for alpha because, let's face it, a lot of people just consider alpha and beta testing as free game time, and that's not what it's about, sure, having to pay a few eurosisn't great, but personally, and you may very well disagree, I have no issue with helping mainting a server online if it leads to a great game being developed.

Anyway, act civil, or else.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:19 PM   #72
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I for one have no issue with paying for an alpha. It isn't as if this will be the first time the game has ever been tested; Eskil has been tweaking things over the entire development process as he sees fit. If he didn't think the game was playable, he wouldn't be releasing it at this point.

Besides, "alpha" is only a label. A game in the alpha testing stage can be extremely stable, while a fully-finished game can be wrought with so many bugs it is left unplayable. Whether the game is being labeled as an alpha or not, it is still a fully playable game. When I buy my alpha key, I won't be paying to keep servers going, or to feed the developer; I'll be paying so that I have access to the game I've always wanted to play.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:33 PM   #73
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Am I the only one amused by the fact that "potential" is misspelled in the thread title?

Admit it, you chuckled.
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:46 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antithesis View Post
Am I the only one amused by the fact that "potential" is misspelled in the thread title?

Admit it, you chuckled.
When I first noticed, I must admit, it was a good laugh. =3
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Old 09-27-2009, 06:47 PM   #75
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If charging 3 euro for the alpha is reasonable or not is up to each and everyone, so I wont argue that, but please let me give you my reasoning behind why i will charge and how i will do it.

I have no investors, but luckily I have been doing and given some favours that has given me access to a single server for free. this gives me the ability to have 200 testers. For testing purposes that is all I need. So it would be possible for me to have an open Alpha for only 200 people. I have during the last 2 years been inundated with alpha/bets requests so I am making an assumption that there are more then 200 people who want in.

So that means I must make a choice, either I select only 200 people and shut the rest out, or I set up more servers. In the last few days I have gotten 8000 people to run the compatibility test, and buying the server space for so many layers would ruin me. So I choose to let everyone in, but I charge for the server hardware and bandwidth. Yes, that's right the money will be going to run the servers. There are two other advantages to charging, one is that i can test the payment system, and the other one is that it may cull some people who have no interest in seriously testing the game.

If you think I will make any profit from this, do the math, and you will find that even if I get 8000 players (Something I don't think I will reach by a long shot), multiplying that with 3 euros and then removing all the server costs or running a 40 CPU server farm, wont be any where close to the cost of 3 years of development.

This is an Alpha, things are bound to not work, and if you are not OK with essentially donating 3 euros without knowing if you will get anything for it, you shouldn't do it. If you are even contemplating the "value" of the deal, my advice would be don't do it, no hard feelings. I'm giving people the OPTION to try the game if they pay for the hardware and bandwidth, I'm not guaranteeing anything. If you want a finished game, wait until the game is finished, or at least wait until some feedback pops up on the forums.

I hope you will find that i will make this very clear to everyone once the Alpha goes live.

In my mind 3 euros is a symbolic sum, so small that comparing it to the value of a 60Euro full priced game is kind of silly.
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